Get Everything Done

Well, I have posted that DWM has been going well for me and it has for the most part. I like the idea of commitment of tasks. But I will be brutally honest -- I do not like using a daily diary and having to write tasks on month ahead, and then ones worked on and not done one week ahead. There is something about it I just do not like. This is just me and not anything against DWM, but I felt better and more in control when using AF4. SO I am officially ending my testing and going back to AF4. It really worked well for me and I see no reason to work with a system that may well be brilliant and works almost as well....but if I don't LIKE IT, then what is the point?

I hope Mark and All are not disappointed in my response. After all, AF4 is a brilliant system designed by Mark!

-David

<<I do not like using a daily diary and having to write tasks on month ahead>>

It would drive me nuts as well. Which is why I was so pleased to discover that DWM plays so nicely with electronics - with very little hacking.

Perhaps one day, Mark will create 4-5 columns, describing each system, the pros, cons, etc, allowing people to choose one that works best for them

I actually never tried DWM on paper, I immediately rewrote AutofocusAHK to support it and use it exclusively. Since it takes care of building the list, I don't have any issues with the dated entries. So I'm currently experiencing quite a productivity boost, but since I always have that when Mark publishes a new system, it's a little soon to tell.

I'm also doing it electronically and loving it. Knowing there is a predetermined shelf life for each task has forced me to take action on a "stuck" item on more than one occasion.

After giving it much less of a try than David, or Jupiter, I regret to report that I have also gone back to AF - I use AF3. Full of optimism from the enthusiastic reports of others on this forum, I set up my work filofax with dated pages yesterday, intending to follow DWM instructions as written. But almost immediately, I felt anxiety about having to look for immediate tasks on 2 different pages and deadlines potentially being spread out over 30 pages, and felt confused about where to write new tasks(or were they continuations?). I know it sounds dumb, as the instructions are clear enough, but the differentiations seemed to add a subtle mental overhead which got in the way. In contrast to my immediate feeling of control and wellbeing when starting to use AF3. The beauty of AF3 for me is the simplicity and compactness of the list, the immediacy of short turn round tasks, and the ability to know what all my work is, from a scan of just a few pages. This is all key to keeping stress down! This might have something to do with having little discretionary time to work on the list, and needing to juggle continually to keep the most important tasks in the air.

But I liked the date focussed ideas in DWM so 've now set myself up to start a fresh AF page each week, with an expiry date in a month's time. This week I'm looking at my oldest AF3 page, alongside this week's Hot List of most important tasks and must do today tasks, (it has 2 or 3 items undone, from 6 weeks ago I'd guess) which I'll do or dismiss this week. Fingers crossed I'll get the best of both worlds. A sort of DITM system (do it this month). Thanks Mark and all contributors to this forum for your great insights.

I am using DWM and have gone back to electronic format. In fact, per Mel's suggestion, Toodledo with iPhone app synced up. It is working very well. I was gone for a business trip for a few days and it was very easy to pick up from where I left off. I just had to change the due dates on the remaining items.

However, I haven't put all the items I think off into DWM. I actually think a bit and put more or less items that I am committing to. This has made the list manageable for one and for another has helped me continue to keep the list fresh.

Thanks, Mark. I feel much better already having gone back to AF4.

-David

Mark,
Thanks for your comment. I take your point about learning a new skill, and I agree I could have continued to increase the familiarity and competence. With more discretionary time it would feel different too. But the analysis of what is important to me about my time and task management which this experiment prompted, reaffirmed what I value in AF3 - simplicity and compactness and ease of dipping in and out. And I think our intuitive response to the framework - whether it feels right for you from the outset - must also count for something. With 6 different approaches which you've developed and offered over the years, everyone should find something to suit! Thanks again.

Let me add that, from what I've been reading, the people with the most trouble are those with the least time. Which means it's doing just dandy for you and I but it's a headache for David precisely because of this difference.

I am thinking a slight change in form could make it easier for such people but I'm holding off discussing such until we have more experience following the system.

Okay, Mark....maybe I was too hasty because it IS such a change in thinking. I agree with Alan that perhaps because I am so very busy that such change initially is irritating and work with AF4 had become second nature. I have agreed all along that the visual map of one's tasks in a wrtten diary is very powerful and that one can see how things are progressing -- and that inevitable creeping closer of the "Day of Doom" as you called it!

So....I will go back and try some more and maybe....as you said, it takes a while to learn a new skill....

-David

Hello ! BAck to AF4 since yesterday and i must admit WAHOUUUUU. Immediatly efficient, immediat controle and you can(t even imagin how i feel ZEN !

Well, I started up again this morning and so far it has been working very well. Hmmm....I really do think I was too hasty. I do so much like the visual picture of tasks in my diary....

-David

I think that DWM is a total shift in the way of thinking when using a day planner. DIT kept things on today, for the most part, and that's the way I've always worked was using today's date as my primary focus. Autofocus was a great system, and I found myself surprisingly productive when using it.

With DWM, you are scrolling out pages and days ahead with your tasks, and this is a completely exotic system to me and I would venture to guess, a lot of others here in the forum.

I think this is due in part to the fact that my regulated tasks are also in the same planner. i.e. Payroll is due on x day, and so on. Of course I would enter things for future dates, but today was where I worked from, rather than days into the future.

I have played with the DWM system a bit, but was having problems similar to many of the people who regularly post here. Finally yesterday, I realized that the concept of working forward, rather than working backward was my concern.

Working forward is the most significant change I've seen in any time/task management system. I've read and tried them all from the early days of prioritization through Covey, Franklin, Time Power, RPM, DIT, Autofocus, GTD, Workday Control. The sheer innovation of this system will make it challenging for people to grasp. I am now looking forward to trying it with this new viewpoint.

Hi David
I totally understand your reaction! I had the same one! It's NOT simply a matter of time, it's also the amount of AND INTENSITY LEVELS of the stressors that you're juggling! After I calmed down, I went back to it. Also when I'm in a flow pattern accomplishing something I feel is HIGHLY IMPORTANT, I don't have as much tolerance for anything interrupting my thinking pattern! I TOTALLY GET IT! LOL! The only rx I've been using is to leave it alone and return to it after I've "chilled" a bit! *blush* To me it's worth staying in the spirit of tolerating the learning curve. I simply place a dot next to the entries I need to repeat if I'm in an intense thinking pattern. I only add NEW at the month page. After I'm one with the timebox, I then enter the 7 days entries. It sounds a bit silly but it's my way of saving my brain and my temperment! LOL! If you have a different work-a-round for intense thinking periods, would you share it. Who knows? It might be an improvement over what I've devised so far for these occassions. Otherwise, I'm really enjoying the DWM process so far....

learning as I go

p.s.
My work-a-round for my weekly review and constructing my weekly map was to make it the ENTIRE Feb 14 page! LOL! It's the same effect and also stays withing the rules as written! I'll have to "track" how I feel about that also.....How about you? Did you keep the results of your weekly review in DWM(besides the calendaring part)?
learning as I go

Hi Christine
I did a weekly version of DIT. I'd cull each day's focus items from my weekly map. It kept me current or slightly ahead. BUT, I also needed to use my calendar to strategize my time and best efforts. I don't think I could ever effectively plan without a calendar.
Even testing DWM, I timebox it's use! LOL! Ironically, using my calendar helps me when plans go awry. The decades of living out of a calendar had given me both a future orientation and a sense of reverence for the present as well. It's definitely taught me that plans are just that....forcasting a trajectory...no more...no less! Staying current or ahead gives my mind more flexibility to be creative and more confidence to roll with unexpected stuff. Yeah, it's a paradox. Mark's DIT explains it far better than I! *blush*.
learning as I go

@ Marks How fast have you been circulating through your list?

OUPS i forgot sorry ;))
I can't really answer for i dont know. One thing is sure with AF4 it's over 10 times a day.
But I admit i have modified a bit the rules :
1. Everything goes on it on the first time.
2. Then in a secont time i eliminate, report future task on my diary and reformulate everything which must be.
3. Dissmiss things goes in a third time when i can(t advance on something and back to 1.2.3. by list backlog then active.
4. Puth deadline in front of what must be absolutly done on one day ex. Working on my tomorrow appointment.
5. Put urgency as a star in front of what is absolutly urgent. I only have one star on p1 and 2 on page 2.

With DWM i think i may did about half but for the reason i explained i stoped and went back to AF4.

However how many can be the passes on AF4 one thing is sure it works and the systems regulates by itself with an excellent contrôle of infos. Another thing is amazing is that my AF4 list is no longuer very long because of the elimination process and reporting process of phase 2.

I know my process is not very conventional but it works for me.

Well, I think I am going to go back now to Autofocus 4. I do think there are some very good things about DWM, but after working the system some more, I find once again that I simply feel more comfortable with AF4. It is strictly a personal preference and nothing against Mark and his new system -- I think the world of him. But for me, Mark's AF4 works the best for me. And that is what all of this is about, is it not? We are all different -- and tweak things so that they fit OUR working styles and preferences.

I am glad we have so many systems to choose from!

Best wishes,
-David

Thanks, Mark. I will obviously hang around here and see if I can comment on things here and there. I want to see how your new system progresses. I wish you, as always, all the best.

As I keep reminding people, AF4 is your creation too, so it is not like I am being disrespectful or not staying with the program!

-David

Same as David Drake I really liked AF4, but I do like DWM better. However I'm using an electronic version and I work in weekly buckets. (With a notebook big enough I think it would work well on paper.)

Here's how it works (mimicking Mark's instructions)...

1. I use tadalist.com and have four lists. Today they are labeled "w7 (Expiring)", "w8 (Some Work Done)", "w9 (Closed)", "w10 (New Items)". I see all four as tabs in my browser.

2. This week all new tasks have been entered on the w10 list (because that's when they will expire). Next week I'll create a w11 list.

3. This week all re-entered tasks have been entered on the w8 list.

4. All entries this week have only been to those two lists, w8 & w10.

5. All four lists are treated as if they are one long list and I circulate round them doing the tasks that stand out.

6. All tasks which were on last week's list, w6, have expired. They are dead, done for, dismissed, deceased.

I haven't tweaked Mark's rules, just adapted them to work in weekly buckets because (1) that's the way my work/day-job is structured and (2) I find Outlook Tasks cumbersome and Ta-da List simple.

Hey Greenchutney, I'm glad Toodledo is working well for you so far. It's not a pretty program, but it's the most flexible one out there imo.

Yup, what Mel said. Look in another thread where I posted how I set up Toodledo to handle DWM.

Posting this here because I too tried out DWM for a few days then reverted to AF4. I'm certainly not going to claim that I gave DWM enough of a chance, but intuitively I'm pretty sure this decision is right for me.

I think similar things have been said, but here's the key for me: if you are a person who gets a very large benefit from the GTD-ish sense of "having everything in a trusted system", where you can easily glance at all your tasks as a whole, AND you have only a small proportion of each day to cycle through the list, AF4 is the superior system.

As far as I can see from his replies here, Mark has this "holistic" sense of everything that's on his plate with DWM, but only as a result of frequently cyciing through the pages. With AF4 you can get this sense by flicking through the list. Doing that with 30 pages introduces an overhead of effort that may be tiny, but is enough to change the calm sense of "everything's at my fingertips" to the more anxiious "everything's at my fingertips but only if I carefully page through 30 pages of my diary".

Ludlow,

if you really try DWM you will notice that most of the tasks end on the one week and one month point. So this is where your "urgent" tasks should be... So in fact you don't have to browse 30 pages. In fact most pages are emptyor with just 1 or 2 tasks(which you aren't so committed to do anyway) because they are all closed lists.
Well, I will see if I am still saying the same thing one month from now.

"Doing that with 30 pages introduces an overhead of effort that may be tiny, but is enough to change the calm sense of "everything's at my fingertips" to the more anxiious "everything's at my fingertips but only if I carefully page through 30 pages of my diary""

Ludlow: you might consider an electronic list, which could compress down to show just days with active tasks... (I'm still deciding between paper and power).

In fact the "everything is at my thingertips" is the main reason why I was procrastinating with AF4 as much as if wasn't using it. AF4 is the best task list system I have used, and it works very well at that. But doens't solve the prorastination problem at least for me.
With DWM having the tasks dispatched on a 1 month calendar I must admit it is (at least in thought) slower to browse but because of that you pay more attention at each and every task.
Do you remember AF1 when Mark insisted on the "consider slowly each tasks one at a time". It has disappeared. I guess this was not a followable rule for busy people.
But with DWM I think I get some sense of what that was meaning. In fact IT IS BECAUSE your brain can't grasp the whole list in a second that he pays more attention to the task before its eyes, and you feel more inclined to do it because you could then be able to LOOK at the rest of the list.
With AF4 you could browse the list quickly and then you had you brain balance everything as if you had everything in you head, so you could procrastinate as much as without any list, and I did. But with DWM you brain can't grasp everything so you feel the urge to complete tasks. This is what people called fear.

So to give a conclusion, with the same number of tasks in your system you are more incline to take action with DWM. So in the end you do more, and guess what, your system end in being lighter.

Well I am not trying to say DWM is better but it has some effect on me than AF4 hadn't.

For the tasks to do in some context(for example shopping list), I am beginining to consider writing lists (or using tags in DWM with a search option).

ISD
>In fact IT IS BECAUSE your brain can't grasp the whole list in a second that he pays more attention to the task before its eyes, and you feel more inclined to do it because you could then be able to LOOK at the rest of the list.

That makes sense to me - I know I feel less tension when I read through the DWM pages, even though I probably have more open items, than I did on the AF pages. Oddly enough too, I don't mind duplicates on the DWM list but on AF I'd go through the list searching for duplicates to cross off.

>In fact IT IS BECAUSE your brain can't grasp the whole list in a second that he pays more attention to the task before its eyes, and you feel more inclined to do it because you could then be able to LOOK at the rest of the list.


This is very interesting! In the language of GTD, then, DWM is not so much reducing the stress caused by worrying about "open loops" — it is *harnessing* it for productivity. That's definitely an ingenious way to go. For me right now, though, I don't think it's worth the added anxiety. I guess we all need a certain degree of anxiety to get things done, while too much gets in the way, and right now I'd rather reduce the fear than use it. Each to their own!

After trying DWM for several days, I have been frustrated by the spacing over 30 pages, which seem to make my thought processes judder. So I'm just trying out a tweak to see if it helps me.

I call it compressed DWM:
1) No Diary.
2) Just pages. I currently just have 2 active pages: AF+1 week, and AF+1 month, to capture the 2 entry points.
3) I basically just copied what I had entered into my Diary uring DWM: but instead of having a page per diary page, each old diary page now just has an underlined subtitle: eg By Mon 24th May, under which the task for that deadline is listed.
So currently, my AF+1 week page has about 5 days listed (From "By Sun 25th Apr" to "By Fri 30th April". The latter date is my current +7day slot. My current AF+1 month sheet currently only has 3 dates: By Thurs 20th May, By Fri 21st May, and my current open +1 month slot is Mon 24th May, as I've automatically put tasks that would have been entered on a weekend to the following Monday.
4) I write the date the task was generated on each task entry.

I've also put true deadlines (in red ink in brackets after the task) or even made a duplicate entry under the true deadline date, and I think I may use someone's suggestion of using highlighter to flag tasks that have to be done today..

I may yet go back to the original, but I'll be trying this for a while.

sounds almost like what I'm doing at home with 1page per week (all 7 days on the page) so I only have 4 active pages.

One question, what are you planning to do next week when the +1month page becomes +3weeks? (and later, +2 weeks)

Carol,

Try 28 pages. It's "symmetrical" as James R describes it in his web-based prototype.

In my manual/paper approach (I've waxed and waned between manual and digital since AF1, my current apporach is the best one so far), I date pages (RH only, use LH page for notes, contact details during the day) as my very first task.

All pages in my A5 notebook after day 28 are blank. 28 seems easier at keeping tasks which can only be done on certain weekdays or at weekends separate. I have a movable divider (my note book is spiral-bound. but will be reverting to Moleskine large soon, for other reasons) for Day 7 and Day 28, as well as one near the back called Day 28+ where I can make notes for the months ahead, reminders etc.

I like your practice of writing the true deadline in red, but I guess highlighting would work as well. Maybe I should write deadline tasks in red, or duplicate them on deadline date on the LH page when I create them . Hmmm.

I have roughly 20 active pages. Since I use it for work, I put Fri, Sat, and Sun on the same page since I won't be adding to Sat or Sun when they are the Week page. Saves a few extra page turns every pass (not to mention some paper). I still get the DWM effect and have plenty of room to write on the Week page.

I have 3 Post It tabs I use labeled "Now", "Redo", and "NEW" for Day, Week, Month. I don't use the actual dates much except to know where to put my tabs each morning.

Hi,
Thanks for the comments and suggestions:

Lillian,
I'm now going backwards in my book with the +7 days tasks, and in the normal direction for the +1 month tasks. The new tasks are just entered on the end of +1 month list, which is currently taking up 2 sides of A4 now. The +7 day re-entered list is also currently at 2 sides of A4.

Roger,
I'm now using a yellow highlighter to indicate those tasks which are urgent, so I can find them easily.

Thanks,

Carol