Get Everything Done

Hello I promised to come back to you after a week tell you how was working DWM for me. Well it's a wash out ! I Hate that sytem. I mainly lost 90% of control. It's doesnt suits me at all. Instead of organising properly my info the result was a strick interuption in my mind feeling wich make me confused little by little. So I definitivly quit the system and rush to come back to AF4 until it's ruins my business.
Chears to all.

Yes of course. But it is not easy to explain. I am very busy. I have a lot of information coming all day long. With AF4 i had a long list of things to do. The backlog was clear the active list too. If i was looking to an urgent thing i just had to go backward from the active list. Then if i wanted to follow my work i just had to follow the backlog. In my mind i had a very special feeling all was treated as close list clearly identified. I had the feeling of controling my life and when i had complicated project i just had to put the urgent things at the end. I had no really trouble with dissmiss for each morning i red the all list and eliminated all which i disdnt want to keep. and if i didnt it was reformulated.

With DWM it's more different. Each day is a close list and i have alway to wonder is it a reformulation or is it a new info. When i have to reach it i have to jump from D+30 or D+8 I have alway to calculate the new day. In my mind DWM blocks me it block my intuition. I am just convinced that it is not for me. Sorry Mark ! but it may be ok for other.

I know it is not very rational but i am fully intuitive. I am an action man and AF4 is perfect for me it boost my intuition forced my rationality and make me boost my productivity. With DWM i am less productive and worst less efficient and intuitive. With AF4 I alway have new iideas wich make me run....

Of course AF4 is not perfect. Is there any perfect system ? I dont think so. I have some time to rewrite my list but it is very short.

So AF4 is brillant for me and DWM is just inconfortable.

Hi Jupiter,

I am sorry to hear this. I have been an avid fan of AF4 too, but I am finding DWM to work brilliantly for me. If there are urgent important things for me to do, they are easy to find in the diary and I do them. I find DWM to be psychologically powerful for a number of reasons, the least of which is the commitment factor on certain tasks, and looming do or die dates, and the ability to have a good feel for what I have on my plate.

But everyone is different, so going back to AF4 is certainly a good thing for you to do in your case. Hang in there -- AF4 is a brilliant system too!

-David

I understand that some urgent tasks might be on page 7 and some on page 30.

I don't have a full solution, but I was thinking if you were more vigilant about new tasks and quickly committed to urgent ones, then all your urgent tasks would be on or before page 7.

Bookmarks (in any form) solve the problem of having to calculate the day.

Of course AF4 is an excellent system, so it's hard to go wrong there.

I have to agree with Jupiter I'm afraid, I just cannot get on with this system at all, it makes no sense to me.

I feel quite disheartened really, as I really thought the original DIT was the best system I've ever used... then along came AF1, then 2, then 3, then 4, now it's DWM... it just seems a bombardment of systems continuously superseding each other.

I am getting out my original DIT book and sticking with it... period!

I'm working in weekly buckets, not daily. All week long I've been looking at the items that are about to expire, so I feel pressure to get them done. Tasks I do some work on, but don't complete, move to next week's bucket and are easy to find. I add brand new items to the 'final' bucket (I have four one-week buckets) so urgent items are easy to find.

I've moved from paper to electronic (tadalist.com) and have the four weeks open in four tabs of my browser. The list stays uncluttered since completed items move to the bottom of the list (where they become a record of what I've done).

I would guess that with a good weekly planner this method would work well for me on paper.

<<I feel quite disheartened really, as I really thought the original DIT was the best system>>

So why disheartened? You found a system that works... amazing!

I find it odd that any of these systems - ranging from none to full blown GTD software - would have such a huge impact - positive or negative.

My struggle remains.... developing the habit of working from my lists. To date, that has been true for 7 Habits, GTD, ZTD, AF and DWM.

"I find it odd that any of these systems - ranging from none to full blown GTD software - would have such a huge impact".

It's true. Without a good system I was lost, never knowing what I needed to do, and so not doing it. Then the weekend comes, and I know something needs doing but not sure what so I avoid making any commitments and goof around. Then either I remember something and do it, don't remember something and I fail to do it, or there really wasn't anything and I missed out on the opportunity to do something new.

At work, I'd be presented with 100 things that need doing, and I couldn't keep track of them. I would work one thing ineffectively because I was worried about how those other things would be done. I'd forget some details, and quality would be subpar.

And yet, I feel I was competent overall with life. The *really* important things got done, and work went well enough. Things got more difficult in the past year, competency declined, and I searched hard to develop skills to manage again.

I've found a working system and it really is changing my life from competent to exceptional.

Mark wrote: "But I've not found any problem myself dealing with urgent stuff. In fact I've found it to be much better than any of the AFs at it."

Well, AF3, I think it was, was very sensitive to shifting urgencies. But when I did it, I felt much less compulsion to make much progress on stuff that wasn't screaming for immediate attention.

I did have problems with the other AFs in dealing with urgent stuff. Typically, I just would abandon AF temporarily.

This is why I get such a rush out of DWM. It really does provide me with a balance. I can attend to the immediately urgent stuff, and then I can still focus on longer- and medium-term items.

Mark and Moises,

what kind of balance do you mean?
My experience with DWM is still too limited to get any impression of balance yet.

I am using DWM for only 2 days(on paper for the moment) and realized something.
You rewrite tasks you have worked on 1 week later.
When do you write there? Most of the time when you do tasks on the last page, and since the tasks remaining on your first week are things you don't really want to do or maybe like mark's list almost everything is done, you will see the task you rewrote very very soon. This is a stress reliever. And this may be the balance they are talking about, since psychologicaly you encouter the task you are waiting for before stressing too much, or should I say just at the moment you are psychologically prepared to do it (you are just a little stressed about it).

I don't feel the Balance. Rather I feel that all tasks become equal in both DWM and Autofocus. Without a current initiative, I find that high priority and deeply meaningful tasks (like "Begin thinking about the last chapter of my novel" ) get bumped together with tasks such as "Check bank balance" and "Borrow stapler from Jerry" and "Pick up shirt at Dry Cleaner."
Maybe it's just me -- but I'm beginning to think it would be best to have two lists. One would be for the most important work you are doing -- the work you need to make a commitment to begin every day -- creative work, whatever it is. (As in DIT).
And then a second list for everything else.

I think Mark has written something like that elsewhere, but to write a novel or something like that it is better to block time than to use any sort of system.
If you want to use a system anyway you would better write simple tasks like "Research on ...", "write draft of chapter 3"... maybe.

I think you may have benefit in writing your tasks differently.
I mean, task that describe concrete actions.
"begin thinking" is not really a concrete action. You should write "Write the main points of the last chapter of ..."

Hi Steve
Although this is only day2 for me, I discovered myself doing the same thing. When I open the book, I mean to achieve not simply do life's little chores. For me, it's nice to have my work that requires lesser pain levels separate from work that requires access to higher cognitive processes. I do Current Initiative Automatically but I'm entering it each day one week hence to stay in the spirit of learning the system as it is. I'm guilty of one deviation. I use red lettering for the stuff I deem IMPORTANT vs the rest of the list. So far, only 2 entries are in red. I'm being very stingy with the use of the red pen to keep the effect potent! LOL!
I've found that it's still easier for me to timebox work and then timebox using DWM! LOL!
I'm liking it so far.....At the least it's great to switch to my DWM between snow shoveling sessions! I still haven't decided about how I'm going to treat my weekly review and weekly aims sheet. I'll most likely stick with it and continue to timebox the DWM daily in my weekly aims map.I can't see myself completely ditching an excellent component of my current system. Because my weekly forward focus melds nicely with DWM's forward focus, I don't feel any real sticking points yet. I still keep my actual due dates and also double enter them according to DWM. I'll see what shakes out with more use of Mark's system.
Good luck!
learning as I go

It may be too early for me to judge with DWM, but I worked AF1 and AF4 for several months each and had the same feeling that I'm getting now from DWM after about a week. It may be a matter of temperament. The "conveyor belt" / "Niagra Falls" metaphor introduced in another thread is not to my liking when it comes to creative work -- although it's great for other areas of my working life.

Hi Steve,

It may well be a matter of how one perceives focusing on their creative work versus the hundreds of small tasks that seem more mundane, but still need to be done. As a scientist and an administrator, I have plenty of both. I enter things in my DWM list (previously AF4 list) like "Think about project X" or "Ponder over new direction in research project Y". One thing I still do very much from my GTD days (I still think highly of many aspects of GTD) is to do a weekly review where I in essence stand back and look at what I am doing and see if I need to focus more on some big projects. It is all too easy to become mired down in the hundreds of small things and let big things slip. I also create time blocks in my calendar for these things.

Meanwhile, I am finding DWM to work quite well for me. But again, everyone is different, so this is just my feeling.

-David

Steve

I generally find that if I just trust the system (AF or DWM), I still end up doing the more "creative" or difficult work when the time "feels right" and also, critically, within set deadlines. Moreover, the quality of the work often ends up being superior to work that I had to force myself to do.

Learning to trust my intuition about what I should be doing at any point in time has been the biggest revelation with Mark's systems. Sometimes, simply doing an easier and probably non-urgent/important task seems to unlock my resistance to doing the more difficult/higher value tasks.

Martin

One thing I have been finding with AF (and now DWM, too) is that I tend to feel distracted by the small things until they are out of the way. So I focus on clearing them out first, so I can then focus on the bigger, more meaningful things.

But this has been a problem. The days can be whittled away with minor tasks, leaving very little energy and attention for handling the heavy lifting required for my main commitments. Ideally, I'd rather do it the opposite way -- build the day around those heavy commitments -- the things that will move me forward towards my goals -- and then fill in the administrivia in the bits and pieces of time I have left over.

I didn't fully realize I was doing this until I started re-reading DIT a few weeks ago and saw how much I was really falling into the wrong habits. I was becoming more like Joe Slobb -- not knowing how much work I really had, not knowing when to start and stop, not knowing of what a day's work consists -- and less like Mick Cool.

With DWM I see I have been doing the same thing -- clearing out the first week of stuff does seem to be a natural response to the rules of the system, but the first tasks to be cleared are always the easiest ones, not necessarily the ones I really want to focus on when I stand back and reflect on it.

It's like there are all these little boats about to go tumbling over the Niagara Falls, but while I'm busy chasing them I don't have time to think about how I'm going to manage the ocean liner that's coming right after them. I end up giving the ocean liner as much attention as any of the other little boats -- but no more. I'm always in "little-boat-chasing mode", and have a very hard time switching over to "big-ship mode". Following the "little and often" rule, this keeps the ocean liner from falling over the edge -- but DOESN'T really move the project along the way it needs to be done.

I'm not quitting -- but I am working the system "as written" in hope that some of this will resolve itself just by following the rules. But I am afraid DWM is subject to the "garbage in, garbage out" rule -- if you take an undisciplined mind (ie., mine) and apply DWM to it, you'll get a more thoroughly processed, but still undisciplined, mind. You won't cure the undisciplined mind (garbage in, garbage out). If you take Mark Forster and apply DWM to it, you'll get different results entirely (good stuff in, good stuff out).

The tasks that "feel ready to be done" to me, are apparently not the kind of tasks that will actually help me move towards fulfilling my commitments.

Anyway it will be fun to see what happens, and DWM and all AF systems are still better than any system I ever used before AF.

Seraphim,

What Mark said ;-) I don't personally use a "current initiative" just because of how I think about things. I've tried but I can't make it work for me. What I do is a bit similar, but not as powerful, I guess. I scan the DWM list first thing and prioritize (sorry Mark ;-) Those things that seem important to get done are copied to a 3x5 card in my pocket and I do those first or at least I work on that list until I get stopped for some reason. Then I turn to the DWM/AF list and work that until I "sense" that I can get back to what is on the card. The next day, when I scan the DWM list I'll see things that got done (or maybe I'll have seen them the day before when I was working the list on breaks from my card). At that time I'll cross them off. But basically I don't keep running back to the list to cross them off as soon as I've done them.

I'd use Mark's idea if I could. If not, consider pulling off a "hot list" to keep you focused. Basically I see DWM/AF as what I do when I'm not doing what I SHOULD be doing ;-) And a lot of it has to do with the "grass catcher" aspect of the whole AF suite of tools. That at once makes them powerful and distracting and I need some way to deal with the distracting aspect.

"Basically I see DWM/AF as what I do when I'm not doing what I SHOULD be doing ;-) "

Mike -- that's a very helpful clarification of things for me. I like the idea of having just a few items on an index card or another list (the index card separates the times a little more -- which I think is good). And those items to be dealt with first -- and then everything else.

<< You might find it helpful to use a Current Initiative. I intend to include this as an option when I publish the first revision of the instructions.>>

Brilliant - I need this!

My solution to Seraphim's dilemma is to ignore "the system" and work on the most important project. What ACTUALLY happens is that I procrastinate on the most important project, wait until guilt/fear kick-in, and begin work. In the end, I'm not doing DWM, nor am I getting the important things done.

I've kept a Current Initiative through all the AFs, and still with this new version. I've read here that things like "writing a novel" or "practicing the banjo" should be scheduled rather than just mixed into the AF list. I'm not sure if my Current Initiative is really a Current Initiative, or just this type of scheduling.

Either way, it helps me to have a few of things that I say MUST be done, separate--mentally or physically--from the rest of the list.

Hi Mark,

Actually it wasn't DWM at all that helped me get these insights. It was re-reading DIT. Thus I was a little disappointed when DWM turned out to be not a DIT addendum as you were originally thinking it would be.

Thanks,
Seraphim

I agree with Seraphim, I was rather hoping this new system was an add-on to DIT, a system which I really enjoy using.

It's not, however, so I will continue to use the original!

Hello, just to tell you that i just come back to MY AF4 !!!!
My feeling is like swimming in a hot blue sea on a shiny day ;)) I feel confortable and peacefull after the huricane DWM which brought me more trouble than solution....
Everything is now under control and it has a real effect on my mood and stress.
Believe me or not i won't be back to DWM for watever. I was completely lost and now i feel allright and peacefull. With a little touch of GTD it's perfect for me. I have made a little improovement on AF4 just adding some dates, contexts and priorities on certan elements cause i noticed too that sometime i was more focus on small task than on big rocks.
Anyway DWM will stay in my mind as one of my terrible experience because it immediatly cut all my intuition and this was for me an indeed disaster in my professional. I know i am quiet hard with this system but on the contrary AF4 is so grea, so powerfull, so intuitive for me than finaly i prefer keeping it over anything.

Jupiter -

If I'm not mistaken, didn't you make a similar proclamation about AF a few months ago?

Jupiter -

In this post:

http://www.markforster.net/forum/post/878857#post878865

you bid farewell to this site because GTD was working so well for you.

Jupiter, it's hard to take comments like this:

"DWM will stay in my mind as one of my terrible experience because it immediatly cut all my intuition"

seriously when you repeat them for each system.

Ah, but that was AF1 and AF2 he commented on. Did he ever say that about AF4?

@avrum Thanks ! ;)) Things evoluate and are never the same. ;))
If we write on this forum it's because qe are all searching the best way to be more efficient and more productive. I admit that sometime we put to fire a system and afterward we go back to it. There a French proverb who says only foolish man never change his mind... so i keep the right to change my mind if i decides to... I am free.

Anyway to be pro active, the light came after when i discovered that there could be a bridge with AF4 and GTD. the answer was so simple... I kept my basic GTD organisation list of projects, tickler, diary and so on.... But for context i realised that AF4 by reformulating thing could do better for most of them. But not all I like keeping a special list for prospection or for following certain very special subjects i like to treat in a batch. I realised too that i could add some due date on AF4 or due week. I finaly realised that if i wanted to be efficient i had in the morning to eliminate most of thing wich finaly i decided not to do or un usefull. I opologie if i chocked some of you about DWM but my purpous was only to explain that for a reason i dont know many of my best decision where guided by my intuition. What is stange with AF4 even if it is irational is that grouping things reformulating has a prodigious effect on the vision of my work and especially on my intuition. When i came abck to pure GTD it was blocked, when i tries DWM it was blocked too. I think that reading thing again and again has a special effect on my thinking. I think to that for a reason i dont know when i go on a strick system such as a computer base or even a strick formal paper it doesnt make me advance. In my mind it is suddently much to hard.
At the contrary working in a non formal system little by lttle and often free my intuition even if it is more messy. With just a limit I have to be carefull note to have too many pages because when this happen then it is much harder for me to do my essential stuff. Then Avrum we are not Robot we are human.... Just human... take it easy...

I think we should go easy on Jupiter. Mark asked people to test the system, which he did and he found it did not work for him.

Gerry

<<Avrum we are not Robot we are human>>

I agree. So perhaps it's not the systems but the person, and their idiosyncrasies, that create the drama.

I've said this before... I highly doubt that so much misery, or bliss, can be found by replacing this system or that.

Gerry:

<<one of my terrible experience because it immediatly cut all my intuition and this was for me an indeed disaster in my professional>>

This is simply over the top. Moreover, if you're a newbie on this site, and didn't know the poster responded in similar-ish ways in the past, you'd assume something was horribly flawed with the system. Personally, I wouldn't even give it a shot.

Mark graciously provides systems, free of charge, and asks us for feedback. The above isn't feedback he can use. Actually, it sounds like the poster is trying to lower cognitive dissonance about the choices he's making. Nothing wrong with that, but the blame is misplaced.

Avrum,
I happen to like and appreciate Jupiter's comments -- and, indeed, all the comments from everyone on this message board. You seem to be putting Jupiter down (as we used to say in the 1960s). That's certainly you're right -- but I did want to say that someone here values what Jupiter says.
regards,
Steve

All the best with which ever system you are using Jupiter

Thanks so much for yours supports I indeed appreciate. Tolerance &respect are important valors ;) Anyway to follow our tchat i just give you a link to my blog which explains in French (sorry about that) how i built a bridge from AF4 to GTD. You will see it's very simple and operational. http://gtdway.blogspot.com/2010/01/avancement-af4-gtd-ma-methodes-en-10.html
I will only add one thing about it i am trying for the moment and don't be upset if i tell you in 10 days that it doesnt work :)))) laughf ! I took one idea from DWM the idea of creating a special list for things i wait in the next 8 days ie non urgent stuff. For the moment i noticed that it takes me a little retreat or give me some air for managing stuff and boost my AF4 list a little more exporting task not immediatly operational. The secont tip wich works well too is a morning process read all your tasks first taking your cofea and cross all you don't want to do or is unecessary.

Hi Jupiter,

See my post -- I have also gone back to AF4. I hope things continue to work well for you.

-David

Jupiter and David,
I think AF4 is such a good system for me that I don1t want to try another. Reading your comments only confirmed my impression. I also like AF1, but AF4 works better for me.

@David Drake I would be very interested to see how you have implanmented your system on a notebook if you have a link to something where you have explained it, sure it would be interesting.
@Silvia absolutly right with you, nothing but AF4. It's for me a fantastic system indeed, for acting. So simple, so great ! In the jungle, Mark has found a diamond ! The way the system includes and eliminate tasks little by little make it so operational and efficient. For me it's such a revelation i must cnfess that when i red the forum for the first time and AF1 in particular i thought it was a joke and in any case not a serious system. UNTIL I tried it... Then i realised how incredible this sytem can be. Indeed, for the moment beeing i never be more efficient since i have used AF1 at the very beginning and AF4 for now. I still test others systems like i did for DWM as Mark wished too but until now i always get back to AF4 it is so confortable and intuitive and i do it on a single A4 paper note book with to pens one red one black and a rule. That's all. Not expensive isnt it ?